Google to go completely* carbon-free by 2030.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/16/2020 at 11:20 • Filed to: None

Before Google can rely completely on carbon-free energy, it will need to overcome some technological hurdles. It will need more and better batteries to store and supply energy when the sun doesn’t shine and winds come to a halt. It also says it’s figuring out how to use AI to forecast the company’s electricity demand and become more energy efficient. In the US, the country’s aging energy grid needs to be updated to better accommodate renewable energy, too. Companies like Google are often limited to relying on the available power mix — which typically includes fossil fuels — wherever they’re operating. So Google may need to think about working in places with healthy renewable energy markets and favorable energy policies.

* Google’s new commitment applies to the company’s electricity usage; the company will continue to offset emissions for things like employees’ travel.

Google has a big data center in Pryor, OK, and 36% of Oklahoma’s electricity generation now comes from wind. The state is blessed with both massive hydrocarbon reserves and huge wind capacity ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ).

DISCUSSION (35)

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 11:15

Build a nuclear power plant you cowards

victor > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 11:37

BTW, this is the industry holy grail. To get Data Centers onto 100% renewables even when the sun isn’t out or wind isn’t blowing. Are you a Google or TVC by chance?

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 11:43

In the US, the country’s aging energy grid needs to be updated to better accommodate renewable energy, too.

Yeah, just that pesky hurdle of completely revamping the nation’s totally disjointed power grid...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > victor
09/16/2020 at 11:45

Am I a Google?

We’re talking MASSIVE batteries to get there, right? Just because lots of people want it to happen won’t mean it will... Sometimes you reach a physical limitation, and the technological advance you’re working/waiting/hoping for never comes (or takes way longer than you’d like).

I still don’t have my flying car.

victor > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 11:49

Haha. Autocorrect. Googler. Google employee at the DC. BTW, there is physical limitations, but that’s based on a world where you;re thinking old school. Among the primary data center considerations include the cost structure surrounding power for compute and for cooling. What type of power, and cost/MW

For Compute, there’s advances like AMD’s EPYC chips, which are like 50-80% faster than the same gen Intel chips. This is why AWS/Azure/Google are all jumping on AMD bandwagon. This provides more compute per CPU and per watt of power. This drives some efficiencies.

The cooling element is the biggest cost, like on parity with the powering the computer cost.. Alot of the OK data center is being spent on cooling, but Google also has data centers in Finland and Ireland that rely on passive air cooling and water cooling. The savings in electricity = lower cost = cheaper cloud compute costs = more competitive.

Azure has project Natick, which will literally make the cost of compute 50% due to passive cooing. https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/14/microsofts-project-natick-underwater-datacenter-experiment-confirms-viability-of-seafloor-data-storage/

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti
09/16/2020 at 11:49

In some places, Google will just have to put up a good portion of the funds themselves if they really want to make this happen.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > victor
09/16/2020 at 11:55

I use Google... What’s TVC?

victor > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 11:59

Googler is a Google Employee, a TVC is a Vendor or Contractor. Thought maybe you worked in the Pryor DC or are related with the Pryor DC.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > victor
09/16/2020 at 12:02

No, it’s just somewhat nearby.

Yeah, more efficient processing and cooling are great, but big batteries will still be needed, and that tech, while getting better and better, will hit a physical limit as some point, if no major technological advances are made.

victor > victor
09/16/2020 at 12:10

BTW, I imagine that as the last 50 years of climate research has overwhelmingly come out to be true, my personal opinion is that you’ll see data centers get built further north.

Companies will decom ones in places where it doesn’t make sense based on the following factors:

- Cheap and renewable electricity (renewables are a fraction of hydrocarbon-based fuels)
-Cooler climates ( cheaper to cool data centers like arctic data centers )
-Where people move to ( Climate migration will become a bigger thing )

Azrek > For Sweden
09/16/2020 at 12:14

But but....40 years ago bad stuff happened! The technology has to still be the same as that!

Roadkilled > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 12:39

It’s interesting to see Google match Microsoft’s commitment to be carbon neutral by 2030, but will they match Microsoft’s commitment to become carbon negative?

Personal opinion: It also doesn’t help that Alphabet owns YouTube, and YouTube’s algorithm seemingly promotes conspiracy and extremist videos to people because that gets more video play, hence more add sales. If true, and if Google’s and YouTube’s algorithms continue to put profit before anything else, they will help keep climate change deniers in power, create more division among Americans and keep this country from moving forward towards sustainability.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Roadkilled
09/16/2020 at 13:05

Did you watch The Social Dilemma yet?

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 13:10

They’ll only do that if it’ll make them money, which I venture it won’t.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti
09/16/2020 at 13:17

Paying carbon offsets doesn’t make them money either, so we’ll see.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Roadkilled
09/16/2020 at 13:30

Kind of tangential, but have you seen this documentary that Netflix recently put out? Pretty damn powerful stuff and the speakers aren’t exactly tech outside wackos -

https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > DipodomysDeserti
09/16/2020 at 13:46

Just because it can’t be done instantly or freely, doesn’t make it something not worth striving for.

Roadkilled > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 14:25

I’m not much of a video/movie person. I prefer old-fashioned media such at The Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/youtube-extremism-and-the-long-tail/555350/

Snuze: Needs another Swede > For Sweden
09/16/2020 at 14:29

Where’s my cold fusion? Didn’t Lockheed say they were going to have that shit ready to go in 5 years * checks calendar * ... about 5 years ago?

For Sweden > Snuze: Needs another Swede
09/16/2020 at 14:33

That’s in France yo https://www.iter.org/

krustywantout > For Sweden
09/16/2020 at 14:33

I agree but as Azek pointed out, people are scared. Japan use to be a big investor and user in nuclear power but since Fukushima, their sentiments have shifted, at lease in Fukushima and surrounding areas. Most of their nuclear power plants are still offline.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/20/904354757/after-2011-disaster-fukushima-embraced-solar-power-the-rest-of-japan-has-not

Micro reactors and micro grids are the new methods we need to be investing in. Trying to upgrade legacy systems is too difficult and not cost effective. Having smaller systems makes more sense in terms of upgrades over time. The larger the system, the longer it takes for commissioning and upgrades.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/08/720728055/this-company-says-the-future-of-nuclear-energy-is-smaller-cheaper-and-safer

Lastly, we need better storage technology since we piss away most of our renewable energy generation and we still need fossil fuel plants to mange demand. This is where we have the largest potential to reduce energy production since we can store surplus electricity and use it when we actually need it.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/07/22/new-all-iron-redox-flox-battery-for-renewables-storage/

Snuze: Needs another Swede > For Sweden
09/16/2020 at 14:39

Interesting, I’ve heard mentions of ITER here and there, but never really looked too deeply into it. I’d study their site some more.

Re the Lockheed thing, I googled real quick and they actually did announce it on September 24th, 2015. So maybe in 8 days we get cold fusion ? Though my bet is in 7 wildfires will consume us all, or some other catastrophe will occur .

For Sweden > Snuze: Needs another Swede
09/16/2020 at 14:41

Announcing a new electricit y generating technology on the same day the Nvidia RTX 3090 goes on sale?

Curious

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Roadkilled
09/16/2020 at 14:51

I understand, but seeing the look of concern on the faces of many of the people who brought this technology to market does not come across in the written word.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > For Sweden
09/16/2020 at 15:04

Maybe Lockheed and nVidia are in cahoots... to take over the WORLD?!?

The other day CDW listed the PNY RTX 3090 for $850, marked down from an MSRP of $1900 (iirc) . I ordered 2 of them. This morning I got an e-mail saying “Sorry, we mis-priced the RTX so we’re canceling your order. But if you really want one, they are re-listed at $1800, that’s $100 off MSRP!” I’m still salty about it.

For Sweden > Snuze: Needs another Swede
09/16/2020 at 15:07

I hope so. I need Prepar3d in 8K

Roadkilled > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 15:17

I’m on the autism spectrum and I don’t read faces or emotions well. (It drives my wife crazy at times.) Maybe that’s why I don’t go with video as often.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 15:25

Putting hydro in the mix solves the battery problem. If you only use the hydro on days when it’s not windy at night, it can act as reserve capacity for a lot more demand than it can supply as your primary source. Even more if you use the excess generation capacity on bright windy days to pump water back up the hill.

It all starts to add up to a lot of capital though, and it does restrict you to places within transmission distance of hill country that gets rain, which writes off a lot of the US.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
09/16/2020 at 15:30

And good luck putting in new hydro with environmental concerns.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Roadkilled
09/16/2020 at 15:35

Ah, gotcha. Anyway, it was impactful for me to see these insiders talk about it (not just YouTube).

Do you have kids? Definitely worth a watch if you do.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
09/16/2020 at 15:45

There is that. Although good luck putting in new anything with environmental concerns. Even battery farms are going to be a big problem after the first one catches fire photogenically. The biggest advantage of solar is it goes out in the desert where almost nobody cares.

The funny thing is, 30 years after they go in, most people *like* dam lakes. A lake in a valley is prettier and more useful than just the valley floor. It’s change they object to.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 15:57

I replied to me not to you. Kinja...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
09/16/2020 at 16:00

Lot less tolerance to mess with ecosystems than in WPA days.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/16/2020 at 17:33

There’s a serious suboptimisation issue going on there, unfortunately. Pumping carbon into the air ain’t great for ecosystems either.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
09/16/2020 at 17:41

Yep.

No perfect solution, just better ones.